Collogue:Prayagraj

Prayagraj

Feumar an artaigil a ghluasad. Tha a h-uile làrach co-cheangailte (Google, Britannica ...) mu thràth a ’cleachdadh ainm ùr (eachdraidheil, tùsail). Tha sluagh an progray cuideachd gu ìre mhòr Hindu. Tha cha mhòr a h-uile Wikipedia Eòrpach air atharrachadh mu thràth. Tecumseh*1301 (tauk) 15:11, 14 Juin 2020 (UTC)

Agus carson a tha a h-uile dad an seo sa Bheurla? „Add a topic“, „publish“, „new topic added“, „read as Wiki“ cuin a thèid seo atharrachadh gu Alba mu dheireadh? Tecumseh*1301 (tauk) 15:15, 14 Juin 2020 (UTC)

There have several discussion in enwiki on rename articles based on name changes effected by present day governments. The consensus has been to keep the popular name while appending the new name within the article as "also known as". Vincentvikram (tauk) 05:50, 10 Mairch 2021 (UTC)

Prayagraj or Allahabad

Hello,

as you are aware of, I recommend a name change toward the new and original name Prayagraj. The vast majority of Wikipedias came to the conclusion, they in fact accept the new name as they did with other cities feom India or from other countries in the past as well. Some Wikipedias were not too sure about it for sometimes reasonable, often questionable reference to the new name being used less as the old name. Questionable that is, because in the majority of cases, they argued without references, just sheer claims. That is of course due to the fact that Prayagraj Doesn't play an important role in European media, but when it does, every year when celebrating the most important Kumbh Mela Festival, Prayagraj the new name is being used all over the place, Google is using the new name, Britannica is using the new name, English Wikipedia is not using the new name, they have a reason (when other arguments are comoletely overruled), I accept that, other Wikipedias like Latvian or Frisian didn't have the reason, because you neither find the new nor the old name in their language media, so it is up to ideology.

Some have a Problem with governing BJP, I understand that totally, but completely ignoring the fact, that the move toward the original name Prayagraj again was wished and planned for a long long time before the BJP and so many different parts of society called for it.

Overall as being the place of the holiest Festivals of Hinduism, the Hindu related original name is widely accepted within such a short amount of time (as different to many other examples like Kaliningrad which still to this day is called Königsberg by the majority of Germans, even on maps and in School material the old name is the contemporary name used, but it is not used in German Wikipedia) because sometimes only 1 or 2 people decide, how certain articles should be named on "their" Wikipedia and most of the time their personal view on a subject overrules any objective argument you could bring up.

Because after all, when both names are not that common in contemporary media, more arguments speak for Prayagraj than for Allahabad, but that cant beat ideology sometimes and anti-Hinduism which is pretty common sadly on almost every Youtube Video I saw they are called dumb cow-worshippers..

I hope on this Wikipedia respect for the official decision of the everywhere accepted government of India, the leading example of most Wikipedias as well as other engines and many media in many languages where the new/old name Prayagraj is being used as well as a sensiblity for millions of Hindus will lead to the renaming of the article to Prayagraj

Thank you

--Tecumseh*1301 (tauk) 23:00, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Just look at them go, e.g. on en:wiki, sco:wiki, and fy:wiki... If you're not with them, you are an anti-Hinduist. This request has absolutely nothing to do with what an encyclopedia is about. Wutsje (tauk) 02:19, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

What Wutsje is writing is narrow-minded at its best, because it is just in one direction and one direction only. He writes links of the very few examples, where the new name was not accepted, but it would be more eye-opening to look at the discussions on German, Ukrainian, Polish, French, Italian, Catalan, Portuguese, Bulgarian examples of the Prayagraj site, because these Wikipedias Stick to their own made rules, for example in German Wikipedia it was written: „well not regarding my Personal dislike for the (India governing) BJP (party) we will handle the renaming of Allahabad to Prayagraj the same way we did with the other cities so far“ - you can say what you want, this is the way to handle it.

I accept, that English Wikipedia doesn't accept the name change so far, because the numbers are higher for Allahabad in the last 2 years since th renaming, but it is not acceptable if the numbers for Prayagraj and Allahabad are about the same, because the other arguments weigh much more, i dont want to repeat all of em (official renaming, original name, changed under occupation - not acceptable, religious makeup of the city, Religious importance of the town to Hindus, acceptance of the name Prayagraj by Google, Britannica and other engines, acceptance of the name Prayagraj by way more other Wikipedia, acceptance of the name Prayagraj by media in all languages - just look for „Kumbh Mela 2019“ & „Kumbh Mela 2020“in these languages. - amongst many others

And some people which cannot show that the name Allahabad is more common in their language, and which say, all of these arguments dont matter to them, because they want to keep the old name no matter what, yes, some if them are anti-Hinduists.

And this should not be accepted.

--Tecumseh*1301 (tauk) 21:59, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

The best place to discuss this is on en-wiki here considering we are having this discussion in English, but the relevant policy is pretty much whichever name is more commonly used; our article in Taiwan is not called the Republic of China simply because that is the official name. There is no secret anti-Hindu bias; what you need to do (via google trends, ngram viewer, etc) is to prove that Prayagraj is more commonly used. I for one doubt that it is, but if you can prove that it is (preferably on en-wiki so more editors can participate) then the article will be changed. Zoozaz1 (tauk) 01:41, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

Edit: I see you have already discussed it on en-wiki, so it is unlikely to gain consensus. Maybe in a year or two when it is used more you can change it. Zoozaz1 (tauk) 01:42, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the answer, I really appreciate the way you write (a lot of writers are not that well-mannered), but still when I like you, I have to be able to question the Information you wrote, which is:

1. Simply, Scots Wikipedia is not English Wikipedia and not German or French Wikipedia, we can arrange it like German Wikipedia (there were voices against it because of their, with me shared, Personal dislike of the BJP party, but since they have changed other cities names under similar circumstances, they Stick to their guidelines and changed it to Prayagraj )

2. If Allahabad is not used in Scots language since the renaming in late 2018, I shouldn't have to prove, that Prayagraj is used, but then other arguments are taken into consideration.

3. I wrote all those arguments, which weigh way more toward the name Prayagraj.

-> There is no alternative to Prayagraj, this is quite obvious

Tecumseh*1301 (tauk) 09:16, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

-> = Prayagraj! :)++ --DentediLeonolli (tauk) 01:59, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

The last entrance in this discussion is more than 1 year ago, so I wanted to stop by and ask again, if the move of the article to Prayagraj is possible.

Arguments pro the name Prayagraj on Scots Wikipedia

1. Prayagraj is the official name

2. The name is also the city's original name, meaning the new is actually the old name

3. The name Allahabad actually was given under occupation, so it is nothing that would be acceptable nowadays

4. The vast majority of Wikipedias changed the name to Prayagraj

5. Media have largely accepted the name Prayagraj

Arguments contra the name Prayagraj on Scots Wikipedia

1. English Wikipedia has not yet accepted the name Prayagraj

2. Still people search for Allahabad on Google

Result: there will never be an article in Scots in a newspaper about Prayagraj, so this argument given on English Wikipedia is not able to count.

As well as Google search entries in Scots on „Prayagraj“

We simply don't have statistics for that and will probably never have.

And last but not least Scots Wikipedia is ≠ (unequal) English Wikipedia.

So the article's name is a matter of sympathy..

Sympathy toward the name Prayagraj or Allahabad.

Because of the arguments pro Prayagraj which are listed above, I strongly recommend the article being renamed Prayagraj.

And if there is going to a a Scots article naming the city solely Allahabad throughout the text, not caring about the name Prayagraj, then the article can be renamed to Allahabad, alright.

But if there is no source, why not accepting the original name Prayagraj and lending an ear to the Hindus whose city was renamed under occupation and who want to shake their hometown off the occupation's legacy,which let them accept the new/old name, and we should accept, what they have accepted.

--Tecumseh*1301 (tauk) 21:35, 14 December 2021 (UTC)